Ellenia · Jan 12, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

hi

is strength armor penetration used in every ordinary swing with sword (axe, hammer) or just with attack skills as stated on gwiki?

thx

Kityn · Jan 12, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Only with attack skills. Never leave home without them.

Skuld · Jan 12, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Slightly unrelated note, if this is your first time as a warrior, use strength for the skills and not the passive bonus, it isn't too great >.<

Coridan · Jan 12, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

I agree if you skill bar is empty of all strength based skills and you don't need strength for armor/shield then don't waste any points in it. its fine to put "extra" in there but don't waste them if they can go somewhere else.

kc2000ss · Jan 12, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

It is my understanding that strength affects the armor penetration of every melee attack... not just when using strength based skills

Dutch Masterr · Jan 12, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

i just keep strength at 9 for just about every build.

MegaMouse · Jan 12, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Each point in Strength gives a 1% armor penetration bonus for every hit that your character makes. If you have 10 points in Strength then you have a 10% armor penetration bonus. This relates to all skills not just the ones in the Strength column. I run a 16 point Sentinal build on my warriro with a perfect Sundering FellBlade of Fortitude and see where several hits can completely ignore armor (it doesn't help that in order to utilize the 100 armor points that the Sentinal armor has, you must have 13 points in strength). Use the build that yoou feel most comfortable with.

Mega Mouse

Savio · Jan 12, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc2000ss

It is my understanding that strength affects the armor penetration of every melee attack... not just when using strength based skills

Your understanding is wrong. Try looking at the ingame description of Strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

I run a 16 point Sentinal build on my warriro with a perfect Sundering FellBlade of Fortitude and see where several hits can completely ignore armor (it doesn't help that in order to utilize the 100 armor points that the Sentinal armor has, you must have 13 points in strength).

1. The number of warriors running around with 16 strength and sundering swords is disheartening.

2. There is no way to completely ignore armor, i.e. 100% armor penetration.

MegaMouse · Jan 12, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Using certian skills (can't remember shich ones) and vs a fo with low armor points, ignoring armor is possible. I will check out my Warrior and post the skills that ignore armor and post the stats as soon as I can. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen.

Mega Mouse

Yanman.be · Jan 12, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

MegaMouse. That is utter crap.

lagrand1 · Jan 12, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

no, it's true. if you are a warrior mesmer and have illus weapon on, it ignores armor. of course, it ignores the sundering too.

Yanman.be · Jan 12, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

He clearly says "several hits can icompletely ignore armour". Utter crap.

Red · Jan 12, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Using certian skills (can't remember shich ones) and vs a fo with low armor points, ignoring armor is possible. I will check out my Warrior and post the skills that ignore armor and post the stats as soon as I can. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen.

Ignoring armor requires 100% armor penetration. "Low armor points" does not matter. 50% against armor level 20 does not IGNORE armor any more than 50% against armor level 100.

To acheive true armor penetration, you would have to get that number up to 100%. Looking at the skills offered at This Wiki Page, you could have (assuming perfect penetration stacking):

20% from the warrior skills like Primal Rage (note that this overrides even 16 in strength. Thanks, Savio!)
20% from a sundering sword hilt (20% chance, but whatever)
20% from the enchantment Judge's Insight
60% maximum armor penetration on an attack skill.

That looks like it penetrates armor 60%, rather than ignores it completely.
Higher damage to lower levels of armor is not because attacks are ignoring armor, but rather because the lower armors come with a damage penalty, if you will. Armor level 60 (typical max caster armor) provides the baseline, the benchmark, for damage.

Any armor lower than 60 will actually hit for more than the weapon is capable of. XD I love taking my monk and wanding level 3 monsters on Istan. Even here, though, the armor is not IGNORED--just insufficient to protect against severe damage. If you research on www.guildwiki.org, you'll see that even lower levels of armor adhere to a general Armor-Damage equation.

Short story: unless you're using skills that specifically ignore armor (Obsidian Flame, shadow damage skills, direct damage, etc), then you are not, as a warrior, ignoring armor. Ever.

P.S. There ARE skills that will add a +X to your damage on a hit. THOSE additional points do ignore armor, but only because they are "direct damage", and so do not factor into the armor equation. However, only those additional points are armor-ignoring; the hit itself still gets run through the armor calculations before the additional +X is added in.

Jeremy Untouchable · Jan 12, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I concur with red, 100% al penatration isnt gonna happen

Savio · Jan 12, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

20% from the warrior skills like Primal Rage
20% from a sundering sword hilt (20% chance, but whatever)
20% from the enchantment Judge's Insight
16% from Strength at 16 (only activates on attack skills)
76% maximum armor penetration on an attack skill.

16% AP from Strength and 20% AP from Primal Rage don't stack. Read that wiki page again.

Red · Jan 12, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Omg you're right. Editing original post.

Tufty · Jan 12, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I used to use strength akll the time with no tactics at all. Then I got into using tactics. Now im using a hammer build with Dwarven battle stance and Im back to strength again! Dont know why Im telling you all this but I guess what im saying is horses for courses.

jana_the_stranger · Jan 12, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Each point in Strength gives a 1% armor penetration bonus for every hit that your character makes.

every hit so not only when you use i skill

btw i was thinking that the basic damage (so no critical hit, no penetration ..)you do with a hammer/axe/sword/... req 9 was the same if you have 9 points @that attribute.

But i tested it in pvp with wild blow (so i always had a critical hit)and no strenght-points spended and i did more basic-damage with 16 then with 9.

well for me thats weird

and it wasnt just 1 damage/hit it was more then 10.

so if you play pvp with a perfect req 8 weapon your character is better then a pvp-one omg

Savio · Jan 12, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger

so if you play pvp with a perfect req 8 weapon your character is better then a pvp-one omg

No, weapon requirements don't matter. Increasing your weapon mastery attribute increases damage. At 12 weapon mastery you deal 100% of the listed damage; at 16 you deal 115%.

Coloneh · Jan 12, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

To the OP: these users that say strength affects all hits are wrong. please do not believe them. Strength only affects attack skills.

Jan 12, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43	#1
Ellenia Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Guild: Vengeance Is Ours Profession: W/Mo	i have doubts on strength hi is strength armor penetration used in every ordinary swing with sword (axe, hammer) or just with attack skills as stated on gwiki? thx

Jan 12, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51	#2
Kityn Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Guild: Heroes of the Horn [HoH] Profession: N/	Only with attack skills. Never leave home without them.

Jan 12, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16	#3
Skuld Furnace Stoker Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr] Profession: A/	Slightly unrelated note, if this is your first time as a warrior, use strength for the skills and not the passive bonus, it isn't too great >.<

Jan 12, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51	#4
Coridan Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: US Guild: Old Married Gamers {OMG} Profession: W/	I agree if you skill bar is empty of all strength based skills and you don't need strength for armor/shield then don't waste any points in it. its fine to put "extra" in there but don't waste them if they can go somewhere else.

Jan 12, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01	#5
kc2000ss Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 3rd rock from sun out of eight? Profession: W/N	It is my understanding that strength affects the armor penetration of every melee attack... not just when using strength based skills

Jan 12, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17	#6
Dutch Masterr Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Guild: Elite Knights [SWAT] Profession: W/	i just keep strength at 9 for just about every build.

Jan 12, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27	#7
MegaMouse Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: south mississippi Guild: Warriors Of Melos WOM Profession: E/N	Each point in Strength gives a 1% armor penetration bonus for every hit that your character makes. If you have 10 points in Strength then you have a 10% armor penetration bonus. This relates to all skills not just the ones in the Strength column. I run a 16 point Sentinal build on my warriro with a perfect Sundering FellBlade of Fortitude and see where several hits can completely ignore armor (it doesn't help that in order to utilize the 100 armor points that the Sentinal armor has, you must have 13 points in strength). Use the build that yoou feel most comfortable with. Mega Mouse

Jan 12, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52	#9
MegaMouse Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: south mississippi Guild: Warriors Of Melos WOM Profession: E/N	Using certian skills (can't remember shich ones) and vs a fo with low armor points, ignoring armor is possible. I will check out my Warrior and post the skills that ignore armor and post the stats as soon as I can. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen. Mega Mouse

Jan 12, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55	#10
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	MegaMouse. That is utter crap.

Jan 12, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00	#11
lagrand1 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Zombies of War Profession: W/	no, it's true. if you are a warrior mesmer and have illus weapon on, it ignores armor. of course, it ignores the sundering too.

Jan 12, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03	#12
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	He clearly says "several hits can icompletely ignore armour". Utter crap.

Jan 12, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53	#14
Jeremy Untouchable Wow Stole my freetime Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arkansas Guild: None Profession: W/E	I concur with red, 100% al penatration isnt gonna happen

Jan 12, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15	#16
Red Rawr! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kentucky, USA Guild: Team Love [kiSu] Profession: Mo/	Omg you're right. Editing original post.

Jan 12, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41	#17
Tufty Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: UK Guild: CUTE	I used to use strength akll the time with no tactics at all. Then I got into using tactics. Now im using a hammer build with Dwarven battle stance and Im back to strength again! Dont know why Im telling you all this but I guess what im saying is horses for courses.

Jan 12, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59	#20
Coloneh Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Profession: D/W	To the OP: these users that say strength affects all hits are wrong. please do not believe them. Strength only affects attack skills.